Noobie help please!

[Skipperz]

Good Evening All,

First timer here, both on the forum and tanks. I will try my best to include as much useful information first time around, but sorry if I miss something out.

We have owned the tank for almost 2 months now and for the first couple of weeks, we dosed the tank originally with Seachem Prime. I had not realised initially that I should have continued dosing daily, until after a few days when I spoke to a LFS. They advised me to get a product called Microbe-Lift Nite-Out II and to dose daily with it until I get an Ammonia/Nitrite spike. I did that for about a week and started getting a large build up of green and brown algae. In being honest, I forgot to test the water for a few days in the middle. When I did test the water, I was getting 0 Ammonia and 0 Nitrites, however, the Nitrates had risen (a lot more than tap levels). I spoke with the LFS and explained the above and I was told that it sounds like the tank was ready and had been cycled and I probably missed testing the spikes. Naturally we got excited and the weekend that came up we went to get some fish. Took tubes of sample water with us, to be sure and had the LFS test. They had the same results, 0 nitrite and 0 ammonia and so we picked up the x4 Rams as below. Because of the higher nitrates level, I did a 25% water change quickly before adding in the Rams (Waited for the tank to get back to Temp before adding).
Everything was going great, Rams seemed happy and had no issues. After about a 3-4 days I did a 25% water change as I had caught a spike in Nitrites, but throughout had been recording 0 Ammonia. On day 7 we thought maybe it would be fine to add some more fish in as it all seemed to be going well and the tests I had done seemed fine, so we went to the LFS again with some samples. They found on their tests that it had some slightly raised nitrites, and so they advised us to wait a little longer as it had only been a week since adding Rams. I did another 25% water change the next day and we waited another week. Testing all showed 0 nitrites and 0 ammonia, so we went again to the LFS that weekend and they confirmed water tested fine and we came away with the shark and pleco. The first 3-4 days everything was fine, had been a rise in Nitrites and so did a 25% water change. After a week, the Nitrite spiked heavily and continued to spike heavily. I did a 25% water change on Friday 15th, Sunday 17th and Monday 18th because when I tested Nitrite was showing as up to 4ppm. When i tested Tuesday 19th it showed Nitrite at around 0.25 - 0.5ppm and I thought it had settled, but I just tested again today and it is now showing back up at around 4ppm.

What am I doing wrong? I shouldnt have to be doing this many regular water changes right?

Is it potentially my method for doing water changes that is the problem? I generally dont touch the filter media when doing a water change, except for the poly pads which I rinse and clean out in the removed water from the tank. When I add fresh water back in, I do use tap water and I do a top up dose of seachem prime (as per instructions on bottle) and also dose with Nite out II. I generally dont wait a lot of time between dosing the water and adding to the tank, should I be waiting more time to allow the chlorine to be removed from the new water? Or would it make little difference? After topping water back up, should I be waiting a period of time before putting the pump back on? At this point I am second guessing every step I am making, so some of this probably sounds stupid but I feel like I am clearly missing some detail and am worried that I am killing off the bacteria somehow.

Sorry for the mammoth story, and thanks in advance for any help, advice or guidance! Many Thanks

Tank = Juwel Lido 120ltr (Cube) - All in one; Juwel Eccoflow 500 pump, Aquaheat Pro 100 heater set to 25-26oC
Filter media (Top down) = x3 biopad poly pad, x1 bioCarb, x1 Nitrax, x1 bioPlus coarse, x2 bioPlus fine -- https://www.juwel-aquarium.co.uk/equipm ... iltermedia
Stocking = x4 Electric Blue Rams, x1 Red tail Shark, x1 Sultan Pleco

[black ghost]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

You're not doing anything wrong, well, except for thinking the tank was ever cycled. The initial nitrate rise was just the start of the cycle. You'd added some viable bacteria which immediately started to produce nitrate. You didn't see any ammonia or nitrite because they were both being converted quickly, so no measurable build-up.
You're now unfortunately in the middle of a fish-in cycle... this is when you need to dose Prime every day, and do as many water changes as possible. You've been given some bad advice by the shop.

[Martinspuddle]

Greetings & welcome to

I agree with @black ghost

Stocking = x1 Red tail Shark

Epalzeorhynchos bicolor, I don't know if your aware but these fish can be very pugnacious and not a good mix with your Electric Blue Rams.

[plankton]

Welcome to the forum.
As BG says it sounds as though the cycle hadn't done anything, especially if you weren't adding a source of ammonia. The fish would be doing that now.
I also agree that the shop has given pretty bad advice.
Other questions I have are:
Is your water soft? If not, the rams will have problems and possibly the sultan plec as well.
Do you know how many male rams you have? Only one can be in a tank of that size other wise there will be fighting. I suggest you wait for two to pair off and then rehome the other two.
Do you realise how much room a red tail shark needs for swimming and territory? It's at least 4', so it will outgrow the tank and become pretty grumpy.

Prime is a conditioner and just takes the nasties out of water, it doesn't cycle the tank. The Microbe-lift usually comes from Maidenhead Aquatics (I've not seen it on the shelf anywhere else) and doesn't actually cycle the tank either. It does help boost the filter when adding new fish though. Some of them (MA) don't give the best advice. Some are really good though.
Whereabouts are you? Maybe someone can supply some used filter media to help with the cycle?

[fr499y]

Also remove the juwel biocarb as you don't need it unless your removing medicines from the tank.

[Bluetaurus]

Hello and welcome

[Skipperz]

You're now unfortunately in the middle of a fish-in cycle... this is when you need to dose Prime every day, and do as many water changes as possible. You've been given some bad advice by the shop.

Thank you! So you dont think I need to change any of my processes or how im doing things? Just need to keep doing what im doing until it settles itself? Except for dosing, should i be doing the Prime? Or the Nite out? or both? Can i just pour it directly into the tank anywhere?

Epalzeorhynchos bicolor, I don't know if your aware but these fish can be very pugnacious and not a good mix with your Electric Blue Rams.

See again, I did speak to quite a few different fish shops for advice on stocking and it was mixed reviews in terms of coheasion. After almost 2 weeks of them being together, there is literally no interaction between the Rams and the Shark. They literally swim right next to each other, even touching, and dont care, he pays 0 attention to them but of course it is something I will keep monitoring to make sure it doesnt turn ugly. If anything, the problem is the in fighting between the Rams... which is the next point!

Is your water soft? If not, the rams will have problems and possibly the sultan plec as well.
Do you know how many male rams you have? Only one can be in a tank of that size other wise there will be fighting. I suggest you wait for two to pair off and then rehome the other two.
Do you realise how much room a red tail shark needs for swimming and territory? It's at least 4', so it will outgrow the tank and become pretty grumpy.

Prime is a conditioner and just takes the nasties out of water, it doesn't cycle the tank. The Microbe-lift usually comes from Maidenhead Aquatics (I've not seen it on the shelf anywhere else) and doesn't actually cycle the tank either. It does help boost the filter when adding new fish though. Some of them (MA) don't give the best advice. Some are really good though.
Whereabouts are you? Maybe someone can supply some used filter media to help with the cycle?

As seems typical with most of UK, I think the water is harder than the foundations of my house! Before getting the Rams I did test the water for the GH and KH and ofc, it was off the charts, but again when speaking with the LFS, they simply said that it wouldnt matter as they keep them in the exact same water (Hardness) and are fine. So we took them at their word. So far I cant say that I see it is causing them issues, they have full bright colour, swimming normally, eating... but I guess I dont even really know what I would be looking for anyway?
I believe it is x2 male and x2 female but not 100% sure... There is one male and female that have 'paired' off and they are pretty aggressive to the other two rams that come near 'their space' to the front of the tank infront of the wood. They sort of just chase them away for a second and stop. The other male sometimes stands his ground against the female and then the other male comes over and chases him away, but the female and other male will clash heads sometimes.
Yep, we know he will outgrow the tank at some point and we are aware and have plans in the future to go to a bigger tank. I know for a fact if we keep him for a year, theres no way that we would let him go after that.
Is there another product you have a link to on Amazon or such a like that we could order please? Just want to get the right stuff and get it done so I dont have to keep doing so many damn water changes!

Also remove the juwel biocarb as you don't need it unless your removing medicines from the tank.

Is that really literally all its for? If so, thanks, will take out on next water change.

Thank you everyone for all your help and input! Greatly appreciated. Should have gone to online forums first, as opposed to LFS'

[fr499y]

Rams will be like that one day, hiding a bit the day after then 6ft under the next. Thats why I don't keep Rams or gourami's now ( even when mixing water to soften it )

[Martinspuddle]

Epalzeorhynchos bicolor, I don't know if your aware but these fish can be very pugnacious and not a good mix with your Electric Blue Rams.

See again, I did speak to quite a few different fish shops for advice on stocking and it was mixed reviews in terms of coheasion. After almost 2 weeks of them being together, there is literally no interaction between the Rams and the Shark. They literally swim right next to each other, even touching, and dont care, he pays 0 attention to them but of course it is something I will keep monitoring to make sure it doesnt turn ugly. If anything, the problem is the in fighting between the Rams... which is the next point!

The aquarium you have, while water volume OK for this species, it's size being a cube, isn't long term, ideally no less the 250 litre for an adult. Oh don't get me wrong, their fine when young, a very attractive fish and very endearing with their activities around the aquarium. However, once full grown they are very antisocial fish in a community aquarium and can cause turmoil. It still amazes me that at one time around the 1970's and 80's these fish where considered a 'great beginners community fish' in Practical Fishkeeping Magazine ...they were the days!

Now I know this all to well having had two in the past and many will laugh this story. In the early 1990's I had a 4 foot, 18 X 18 aquarium in my parents garage, housing a load of Convict Cichlids plus young and then added single fully grown adult male Red Tailed Black Shark. A friend at the time no longer wanted this fish, as it had been terrorising has collection of Barbs and Giant Danios. Knowing that Convict Cichlids (Amatitlania nigrofasciata) are pretty pugnacious as well, can be territorial and frankly, anyone who knows these fish ...a breeding nuisance, I thought at the time they would all be fine until I could maybe rehome this fish. But oh no, that was bad idea! After the first day, the following morning I found the Convicts with torn fins where all hiding up one end of the aquarium, while the Red Tailed Black Shark was swanning around the rest of the tank feeding on the carcases of some young he'd presumably harassed to death. I later manage to move him to 8 foot display tank at an aquatics in Eden Park Nurseries locally, with among other large fish were Central American Cichlids, Silver Dollars, Silver Sharks and a number of large Catfishes ...and still he made a bloody nuisance of himself, despite the other fish being three or four times his size! He later was moved to a three foot aquarium on his own and sold.

Personally, I think this fish should come with a public health warning, either that or an ASBO certificate.

[plankton]

Now you've started cycling with fish, you may as well continue with the Microbe-lift with the water changes.
If you have a pair of rams already then it will get worse....
Sorry it's all a bit negative, but we do love our fish and try to do the best for them.