Understanding water hardness

[fr499y]

Not reliably as even though using the same brand water, it can change as they collect it from different sources. Thats why its always recommended to stock fish suitable for your water and not make the water suitable for your fish

[Fish]

Damn Annoying but understandable! I’ve just found a rather large list on a post of hard water fish. Will google them all later tonight. I should probably get on with some work rather than reading about fish and water

[fr499y]

wheres the fun in that?

[Martinspuddle]

Just been reading through this thread.

Google told me cardinal tetras need 4 dGH But I can’t understand how you know that the screenshot I showed means I have 16 dGH, I don’t see that written there at all… oh wait, is it the degrees German part? So cardinal tetras are definitely off the list then

Maybe later when you have some experience under your belt. I've been keeping tropical fish for forty years and still learning.

Most of us work in the German scale ...most

Captive bred Paracheirodon axelrodi will live in higher water alkalinity (Water hardness) but for many, water quality is the issue with keeping these fish. I live in North Kent and my Cardinals live in dGH: 14 dKH: 12 and a pH of 7.0 in clean water, with zero NO2 and NH3/4 values. The problem lays with calcium deposits building up in their organs eventually this can cause a premature death. However, my current shoal are nearly three years old and still going strong. In the wild Cardinals are found in hundreds or even shoals of thousands in densely rooted or heavy planted margins. All these fish are at the lower end of the food chain and studies have shown most only have a lifespan of two years in the wild.

Google told me cardinal tetras need 4 dGH

What you've read there is their breeding parameters. In the Amazon wet season, all the Characins spawn and the water is very acidic, in some areas the dGH 0-6, dKH 0-4 and pH as low as 4.0 has been recorded, with water temperatures 29-30°C (84-86°F). Wild caught specimens might need lower parameters when first imported but are soon adjusted to higher alkalinity values for the pet trade.

May I suggest you avoid using Google when researching fish species profiles and use sites like seriouslyfish.com

[Fish]

Just been reading through this thread.

Google told me cardinal tetras need 4 dGH But I can’t understand how you know that the screenshot I showed means I have 16 dGH, I don’t see that written there at all… oh wait, is it the degrees German part? So cardinal tetras are definitely off the list then

Maybe later when you have some experience under your belt. I've been keeping tropical fish for forty years and still learning.

Most of us work in the German scale ...most

Captive bred Paracheirodon axelrodi will live in higher water alkalinity (Water hardness) but for many, water quality is the issue with keeping these fish. I live in North Kent and my Cardinals live in dGH: 14 dKH: 12 and a pH of 7.0 in clean water, with zero NO2 and NH3/4 values. The problem lays with calcium deposits building up in their organs eventually this can cause a premature death. However, my current shoal are nearly three years old and still going strong. In the wild Cardinals are found in hundreds or even shoals of thousands in densely rooted or heavy planted margins. All these fish are at the lower end of the food chain and studies have shown most only have a lifespan of two years in the wild.

Google told me cardinal tetras need 4 dGH

What you've read there is their breeding parameters. In the Amazon wet season, all the Characins spawn and the water is very acidic, in some areas the dGH 0-6, dKH 0-4 and pH as low as 4.0 has been recorded, with water temperatures 29-30°C (84-86°F). Wild caught specimens might need lower parameters when first imported but are soon adjusted to higher alkalinity values for the pet trade.

May I suggest you avoid using Google when researching fish species profiles and use sites like seriouslyfish.com

Out of interest why do most work off of the German scale? When off the top of my memory (which isn’t great) there was an English and French scale too?

Yes I did also read somewhere that captive bred are more acclimatised to harder water and wondered if this was the case (also about calcium build up being the issue) but didn’t mention it in here in case anyone presumed I was going to go ahead and get them anyway. I want to cycle the tank properly, and I want to look after the fish I finally work out I want (and can have in my water) properly. But there’s a limit to how much information I can take in and actually want to learn. It’s also really, really hard for a newbie to know who to listen to because everywhere I have looked so far I will find conflicting advice. I guess I was hoping for some comprehensive list somewhere of examples of tank sizes and what groups of fish would be compatible with each other, in what waters, and how many

Thanks for the link, I will have a look later if it’s not in an open tab already

[DuzMano]

Using the aquarium stocking guide kinda gives a summary of the parameters you need, so it does what you want but from the other way so does take more fiddling on your part to find out but it does give red alerts for completely incompatible species and/or parameters.

https://aqadvisor.com/

[Fish]

Using the aquarium stocking guide kinda gives a summary of the parameters you need, so it does what you want but from the other way so does take more fiddling on your part to find out but it does give red alerts for completely incompatible species and/or parameters.

https://aqadvisor.com/

Thanks, I did see this before but my eyes can’t cope with that site, even with my glasses (and I’m not even that blind). I do everything on my phone and I’m not sure that site has phones in mind

[DuzMano]

Using the aquarium stocking guide kinda gives a summary of the parameters you need, so it does what you want but from the other way so does take more fiddling on your part to find out but it does give red alerts for completely incompatible species and/or parameters.

https://aqadvisor.com/

Thanks, I did see this before but my eyes can’t cope with that site, even with my glasses (and I’m not even that blind). I do everything on my phone and I’m not sure that site has phones in mind

Yes it's a nightmare on phones unfortunately, kinda doable but it involves a lot of pinching and scrolling haha I get where you're coming from absolutely

I found it a good resource to use as a guide and when you find a compatible set up you can consult other sites for more in depth stuff about the species such as behaviours and more detailed parameter info, what substrate type they prefer and such etc

Worth trying to persist with in my opinion but understand if it's a faff too far lmao

[Martinspuddle]

This is going a tad off topic, but hey ho.

Out of interest why do most work off of the German scale? When off the top of my memory (which isn’t great) there was an English and French scale too?

I was brought up using this scale but don't really know why most use it, just easier I think. A lot of the treatment manufacturers use the German scale as do the water companies.

Yes I did also read somewhere that captive bred are more acclimatised to harder water and wondered if this was the case (also about calcium build up being the issue) but didn’t mention it in here in case anyone presumed I was going to go ahead and get them anyway. I want to cycle the tank properly, and I want to look after the fish I finally work out I want (and can have in my water) properly. But there’s a limit to how much information I can take in and actually want to learn. It’s also really, really hard for a newbie to know who to listen to because everywhere I have looked so far I will find conflicting advice. I guess I was hoping for some comprehensive list somewhere of examples of tank sizes and what groups of fish would be compatible with each other, in what waters, and how many

I seen this online 'captive bred are more acclimatised' and I'm sorry but that statement is wrong. Why? well to breed Paracheirodon axelrodi, it can only be done in acidic water with a pH 6.0-6.5 and low dGH, dKH with a temperature of 29-30°C (84-86°F) so the fry once they get to about 5-6 weeks old they still have to be acclimatised to the alkalinity levels of our water. They might be slightly hardy than wild caught Cardinals and not so susceptible to water parameter changes other than that, there's little difference.

Google 'Tropical Fish and Freshwater Compatibility Chart'

I do suggest you stick to some hardy, easy species to start with. Aged 13, I started with a 24 x 12 x 12 aquarium with Guppies.



Your 60 litre aquarium (when fully cycled) I'd suggest the following:

Endlers (Poecilia Wingei) x 10
Bronze Corydoras (Corydoras aeneus) x 6

That will be fully stocked, giving 4-5 weeks between adding species to be safe. Now I guessed the stocking for your little aquarium then checked on AqAdvisor and found I was spot on.

Link: AqAdvisor

There are other options of course but with you aquarium your looking at no more than 12 to 16 small fish maximum.

[Fish]

This is going a tad off topic, but hey ho.

Out of interest why do most work off of the German scale? When off the top of my memory (which isn’t great) there was an English and French scale too?

I was brought up using this scale but don't really know why most use it, just easier I think. A lot of the treatment manufacturers use the German scale as do the water companies.

Yes I did also read somewhere that captive bred are more acclimatised to harder water and wondered if this was the case (also about calcium build up being the issue) but didn’t mention it in here in case anyone presumed I was going to go ahead and get them anyway. I want to cycle the tank properly, and I want to look after the fish I finally work out I want (and can have in my water) properly. But there’s a limit to how much information I can take in and actually want to learn. It’s also really, really hard for a newbie to know who to listen to because everywhere I have looked so far I will find conflicting advice. I guess I was hoping for some comprehensive list somewhere of examples of tank sizes and what groups of fish would be compatible with each other, in what waters, and how many

I seen this online 'captive bred are more acclimatised' and I'm sorry but that statement is wrong. Why? well to breed Paracheirodon axelrodi, it can only be done in acidic water with a pH 6.0-6.5 and low dGH, dKH with a temperature of 29-30°C (84-86°F) so the fry once they get to about 5-6 weeks old they still have to be acclimatised to the alkalinity levels of our water. They might be slightly hardy than wild caught Cardinals and not so susceptible to water parameter changes other than that, there's little difference.

Google 'Tropical Fish and Freshwater Compatibility Chart'

I do suggest you stick to some hardy, easy species to start with. Aged 13, I started with a 24 x 12 x 12 aquarium with Guppies.



Your 60 litre aquarium (when fully cycled) I'd suggest the following:

Endlers (Poecilia Wingei) x 10
Bronze Corydoras (Corydoras aeneus) x 6

That will be fully stocked, giving 4-5 weeks between adding species to be safe. Now I guessed the stocking for your little aquarium then checked on AqAdvisor and found I was spot on.

Link: AqAdvisor

There are other options of course but with you aquarium your looking at no more than 12 to 16 small fish maximum.

I can’t help but feel I’ve annoyed you… I don’t have 40 years of experience or know the trusted websites for information. In the same way you wouldn’t know for my area of work. It’s only natural I’d use a search engine at the beginning of my journey. I mean, I am here after all. Asking questions to make sure I do things correctly. Trying to work out what is right and wrong. I have adhd and struggle to absorb and retain a lot of written information (and let’s face it, there is a LOT to learn in regards to fish keeping). I have however always excelled when watching and doing - but that isn’t really practical in this case.

Thank you for your suggestion. Corydoras were something I originally wanted. The tank is 54 litre so I presume I’d have to cut down on those numbers?