This forum uses cookies
This forum makes use of cookies to store your login information if you are registered, and your last visit if you are not. Cookies are small text documents stored on your computer; the cookies set by this forum can only be used on this website and pose no security risk. Cookies on this forum also track the specific topics you have read and when you last read them. Please confirm whether you accept or reject these cookies being set.

A cookie will be stored in your browser regardless of choice to prevent you being asked this question again. You will be able to change your cookie settings at any time using the link in the footer.

<
[-]
Latest Threads
want to do a plant pot thing acros the back of the...
Last Post: yorkiejeff
Today 05:45 AM
» Replies: 30
» Views: 545
New friends and background
Last Post: Nick Jarvis
Today 12:31 AM
» Replies: 4
» Views: 56
I.D please
Last Post: Nick Jarvis
Today 12:26 AM
» Replies: 3
» Views: 47
hi all am new to this just joined as stephen reffe...
Last Post: Gingerlove05
Yesterday 11:52 PM
» Replies: 6
» Views: 35
Hi All!!
Last Post: Stephen
Yesterday 11:42 PM
» Replies: 7
» Views: 58
New used project
Last Post: Jen1981
Yesterday 11:31 PM
» Replies: 45
» Views: 1136
Is my fish full of eggs or just overweight?
Last Post: Stephen
Yesterday 11:26 PM
» Replies: 21
» Views: 230
New Video of shoaling fish
Last Post: Stephen
Yesterday 11:11 PM
» Replies: 3
» Views: 81
NAME THAT FISH - GAME
Last Post: Gingerlove05
Yesterday 11:00 PM
» Replies: 11
» Views: 133
Return To The Vale!odrome
Last Post: Sarah
Yesterday 10:17 PM
» Replies: 213
» Views: 4899
Fostering/Adopting a dog.
Last Post: stuaz
Yesterday 09:23 PM
» Replies: 36
» Views: 625
Cheltgirl’s Sooperhooge Goldie Tank and The Barbar...
Last Post: Cheltgirl
Yesterday 08:58 PM
» Replies: 524
» Views: 16020
DoubleDutch's tanks
Last Post: DoubleDutch
Yesterday 07:46 PM
» Replies: 772
» Views: 52846
Betta Cube - WIP
Last Post: Jen1981
Yesterday 07:45 PM
» Replies: 67
» Views: 1488
Nicks tanks.
Last Post: Nick Jarvis
Yesterday 07:42 PM
» Replies: 26
» Views: 396

Beginner's Setup
#1
Hi all,

I am new to fish keeping (only ever owned goldfish), but I am very interested in setting up a nice freshwater tank in my living room (either coldwater or tropical).

I have lined up a second hand Juwel Trigon 350, hoping to collect it in about a month's time. It currently has a single Ocean Free Hydra 50 (Internal HOB filter - 1000lph), and I plan to buy an additional 1000lph HOB filter, maybe the Interpet PF4. I'll have the two filters setup together, alternating the cleaning to ensure good bacteria remains in the tank at all times.

I have never used external or canister filters - I have heard these are more hands on with maintenance, ideally I am wanting to reduce the physical effort required to maintain the tank wherever possible so thinking about avoiding these unless told otherwise. I am currently aiming to maintain the tank by performing regular water changes, using a gravel cleaner and maintaining the 2 internal filters.

The water GH in my area is reasonably hard. The PH always seems to be around 7.0.

I would like a community tank with a few breeds that swim in schools, whereas my wife would like a few larger fish that can be easily identified and named like normal pets... As mentioned previously I would like to reduce the effort required to maintain the tank as much as possible, so aiming for fish that produce little waste to keep bioload low.

I am aiming for a planted tank with a gravel base, so far I have looked into Java Fern, Java Moss, Anubias and Amazon Sword. I have never had a planted tank so know next to nothing about them unfortunately, I would plan to have these planted first and allowed time to grow while performing a fishless cycle.

Once cycled, I would then add Zebra Nerite Snails (approximately 7) as well as Red Cherry Shrimp (starting with 10 and allowing to colonise - I will ensure plenty of hiding places for the shrimp).

Once the shrimp have colonised, if going for coldwater, I was considering adding Buenos Aires Tetra (school of 7), Zebra Danio (school of 7) and Variatus Platy (2 Male, 4 female), not all at the same time obviously. Although as my wife says... there are no options there for her to name... and she finds the Zebra Danio a bit plain to look at.

If going for tropical, I was considering adding Cardinal Tetra (school of 7), Guppies (2 Male, 4 female), and something slightly larger that could be alone or in a pair and would be peaceful with the tetra and guppies... female Dwarf Gourami sound ok, my wife can name them... but it seems only the males are colourful and they may attack the guppies.

What are people's opinions? I have no experience and would be very grateful to hear what you have to say. Even if you tell me everything I have said is wrong and my ideas are terrible haha. I'm happy to change anything - a nice colourful tank that is easy to maintain and perfect for beginners is what I'm needing.

Looking forward to hearing your replies,
Matt
Reply
Thanks given by:
#2
I have a Juwel 400 it came with a internal filter which I left in but added a external, my internal I clean once a month my external every 6 months, to me if you go for a external filter your better off with a empty one and add your own media, I have 4 trays bottom sponges fine medium and course, and the other 3 with BIOHOME  ULTIMATE but that's my choice there might be better. 
Reply
Thanks given by:
#3
Hi Matt and welcome
The Juwel Trigon 350 (350L) is a nice corner tank.
The Ocean Free Hydra 50 internal filter is fine for about 200L so an additional internal filter makes sense.
I must say that an external canister filter is much easier to maintain and allows for more room in the aquarium whilst providing space for much more media than internal filters.



Quote:The water GH in my area is reasonably hard. The PH always seems to be around 7.0.


How hard is the water?
This will determine which fish are best suited to your water.
6 foot (600L) South America Rio Guaporé theme.

7 x Biotodoma cupido, 4 x Laetacara dorsigera, 2 x Apistogramma trifasciata (wild), 20 x Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, 18 x Hyphessobrycon eques, 30 x Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi, 18 x Corydoras Sterbai, 12 x Corydoras caudimaculatus, 9 x Otocinclus sp.

My Flickr page
Reply
Thanks given by:
#4
Wow! Thanks for replying so fast! So external filters are easier to maintain? Sounds like I may have got this the wrong way round. How do I post screenshots? I'll type what I can see manually for now... Hardness level is Hard. Hardness Clark is 17.04, Hardness German is 13.63, Hardness French is 24.34 (not sure what these mean).
Reply
Thanks given by:
#5
Hi Matt

Welcome aboard!

I am new to fishkeeping. But it appears that you've done a lot of reading. Good on you!

(only ever owned goldfish). But, as Bradley Walsh might say: "I think you're a better player than that"!

So the Juwel internal filter has been removed by the tank's current owner?

Those Ocean Free Hydra filters  - I'm not too enamoured with them. The principle is probably good but ongoing maintenance and costs seem a bit offputting. The electrolytic plate(s) have to be kept clean to ensure efficiency ; and have to be replaced every so often. Thery're not cheap! The manufacturer doesn't appear to be keen to answer what could be awkward questions.

An exterrnal canister filter is what you could be considering with a little more enthusiasm!  Set up correctly (with a prefilter, perhaps) they're certainly not a chore, maintenance-wise. They're available with in-built heaters ; or it's easy to install an in-line heater. In either case, unsightly equipment is housed outside the tank. With a suitably-sized canister, there's no need for an 'extra' internal filter unless you have a specific reason to build in redundancy.

Community stocking in hard water isn't within my sphere of interest, so I'll leave others to comment. One or two of the fish you mentioned ars better suited to soft water, though.

No real need to plant up in advance of starting a fishless cycle. Planting and cycling can be concurrent.

The lighting will be Juwel's original? Fluorescent or LED?

No need to stock fish incrementally after a successful fishless cycle (it counteracts one of its aims, actually!).


[Edit : to acknowledge interposed replies by those not reliant on the 'hunt-and-peck' method of typing!]
Reply
Thanks given by:
#6
I've done A LOT of reading haha, to the point where my wife is fed up as it's all I've talked about lately...

I'm not overly sure if there was a built-in Jewel internal filter... I know the new models have them, do the older models? This model comes with a 2-door cabinet.

I'm definitely starting to lean towards external canisters, but I know they are more expensive. I will need to look into this more to ensure I understand what you mean by pre-filtering. I really do need this to be as easy to maintain as possible as I can be a little lazy sometimes... and I don't want my wife to be right when she says I'm not going to maintain it properly. Easy to maintain aquarium means I may actually be right for once haha!

I have read that some of the fish that are native to soft water are actually fine in hard water, as they are bred in captivity - often in hard water? No idea how true this is though!

I'm not sure what lighting is provided in all honesty, but I can message the current owner to find out.

So once the cycle is complete and the shrimp have established their colony I can just add all the fish? I read (I've done a lot of this...) that you're best off introducing one breed at a time and allow them time to settle before adding the next?
Reply
Thanks given by:
#7
Quote:I have read that some of the fish that are native to soft water are actually fine in hard water, as they are bred in captivity - often in hard water? No idea how true this is though!
That is just a myth.

Keeping fish in the wrong water, even breeding them, can not undo 1000s of years of evolution.

Once the tank is fully cycled (fishless cycle) then you can fully stock with fish.
The fish you buy are usually small juveniles but they will soon grow.


Quote:I'm definitely starting to lean towards external canisters, but I know they are more expensive. I will need to look into this more to ensure I understand what you mean by pre-filtering. I really do need this to be as easy to maintain as possible as I can be a little lazy sometimes...
As long as you have sufficient filtration then you will be fine.

I would be looking at an external filter that provides (on paper) somewhere around 1400L/h (litres per hour) at least 4 x volume turnover.
A less expensive filter might be the All Pond Solutions 1400EF external filter at only £59.99 but you may want to upgrade the media that comes with it.
Alternately a better built external filter will cost much more.

All the best
6 foot (600L) South America Rio Guaporé theme.

7 x Biotodoma cupido, 4 x Laetacara dorsigera, 2 x Apistogramma trifasciata (wild), 20 x Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, 18 x Hyphessobrycon eques, 30 x Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi, 18 x Corydoras Sterbai, 12 x Corydoras caudimaculatus, 9 x Otocinclus sp.

My Flickr page
Reply
Thanks given by:
#8
So far as I know, Juwel aquariums have always had pre-fitted internal filters. Many people remove them on grounds of aesthetics.

Many here (including me) will attempt to steer you towards Eheim filters. A bit more expensive than some other brands, but worth it. Google for 'Eheim prefilter'. When you've decided on the filter you want (whichever model/brand) keep an eye on places such as Gumtree, Freecycle and Aquarist Classified - you never know what'll come up.

Hardness "German" is what's relevant.

A fish's ability to 'cope' with water that genetic programming tells it is unsuitable varies across species. There are a few variables, such as potential exposure to pathogens. Tank breeding over many generations will help select individuals that can function towards the extremes of their theoretical range of water hardness ; but genetics is the overarching factor.

In general, 'softwater' fish are better at coping with hardwater than are 'hardwater' fish in soft water.

Yes - a tank may be fully stocked after completion of a fishless cycle (more about that anon, perhaps). With certain combinations of species it may be advisable to, as you say, let one 'settle' before introducing another. But that's to do with behaviour rather than the cycling process. Once your stock has been identified, advice will come your way on that, I'm sure!
Reply
Thanks given by:
#9
(21-08-2019, 01:16 PM)Matt90 Wrote: Hardness level is Hard. Hardness Clark is 17.04, Hardness German is 13.63, Hardness French is 24.34 (not sure what these mean).
These three measurements mean exactly the same but the one most often referred to with fish keeping is degrees German hardness (dGH).
So your water is 13.63dGH, so it is hard but not very hard.

Here is my water hardness table.
[Image: 0a2Nd59l.jpg]
6 foot (600L) South America Rio Guaporé theme.

7 x Biotodoma cupido, 4 x Laetacara dorsigera, 2 x Apistogramma trifasciata (wild), 20 x Gymnocorymbus ternetzi, 18 x Hyphessobrycon eques, 30 x Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi, 18 x Corydoras Sterbai, 12 x Corydoras caudimaculatus, 9 x Otocinclus sp.

My Flickr page
Reply
Thanks given by:
#10
Welcome Matt - I bet you can't wait to get started!
I bought a second hand set up with all the kit and found there are some pros & cons:
I'd make sure you clean everything scrupulously. I didn't and it caused problems with things like black beard algae.
The guy who sold me mine had replaced the light & bodged the hood, so I'm now topless (stop sniggering in the corner) & evaporation's a pain.
Having said that, I didn't have to go out and get nets, gravel cleaner, a load of chems/ferts etc - and much cheaper than putting it together yourself.

Mine came with a canister filter (Fluval 305). I'd no experience of them before, but it's been really simple to look after and only occasional needs cleaning - I just rinse the sponges in tank water every couple of months.
I love that it's tucked away out of sight and makes the tank look cleaner. I'm seriously considering an in line heater.

I'm not nearly experienced enough to give stocking advice, but I've got hard water and my Val and Hygrophila seem to like it.

Good luck!
Planted Fluval 240 Roma
18 Harlequins
12 Amano Shrimp
8 Panda Corydoras
6 Kuhli Loaches
4 Otos
3 Pearl Gouramis
3 Assassin Snails
1 Neon Tetra
Platy fry
Reply
Thanks given by:


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)